Feb 26, 2021
Today I am so excited to
introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy
Director at Havas CX Helia, London, where she uses behavioral
science and psychology to improve the customer experience for
brands like Lloyds Banking Group and Compare the Market. Jennifer
has helped mold experiences with behavioral science for brands like
McDonald's, AT&T, O2, and Adidas across the
She is also the author of four
books including the one we will be discussing today,
How to use psychology and
behavioral science to create an experience that
sings, AND she has two
different podcasts, Choice Hacking and Everybody Hates Your Brand.
Wow, talk about a busy and productive person, amirite?
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- [00:40] Today I am so excited
to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX
Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London.
- [03:05] Jennifer shares her
background and how she got involved in behavioral science. She has
been lucky to work for many companies across many
- [04:35] A lot of the work she
has been doing lately has been about the intersection between
behavioral science and psychology. She takes those principles and
applies them to experience design.
- [06:48] One of the big things
Jennifer does is framing touchpoints.
- [09:39] Crossing over from one
medium to another is a difficult point where we often lose some
potential customers. There are a lot of steps that happen in the
customer journey process.
- [10:28] Generally, when you
design a customer journey you use a customer journey map: a visual
representation of what the customer journey is.
- [10:45] On a map the customer
journey is linear, but in real life it is messy. Yes, we have a
beautiful picture of what the customer journey
should be, but in the back of your mind, you have to
- [11:49] The closer we can get
to design touchpoints and customer communications with a scientific
approach or foundation to apply it to the real world the better it
- [13:08] The number one thing
brands seem to get wrong (or miss completely) is peak-end and
applying it across the customer journey. The emotional journey is
the secret sauce.
- [14:17] A lot of brands get
their ending wrong. They don’t know where the real ending
- [15:41] Brands,
in general, don’t realize that the last mile (the true ending) is
so critical in so many ways.
- [16:17] Jennifer shares an
example of Disney realizing the customer journey didn’t end when
you left their park.
- [17:19] Making the very end of
your experience even better and more exciting means your memory of
the time you spent in Disneyland is even better. It is how you are
constructing the memory, it is not about every single moment you
had. It is that emotional peak and true ending that
- [17:57] “A brand is a memory.”
Peter Steidl (from one of Melina’s “go-to” brainy books,
Neurobranding, linked below)
- [20:33] There are a few
different ways you can look for that true end in your
- [21:44] Part of the issue of
finding that true ending also has to do with
- [23:56] The brands that measure
on a journey-level versus a touchpoint level have much more value
at the end of the day.
- [25:32] Melina shares how an
online mattress company handles its customer
- [27:16] It is important to
think through all the moments in the experience: where there could
be problems and frustrations and turning it into a really great
shareable moment/story. Then you have different associations with
- [28:30] Going that little bit
extra and saying “Is that really the end of the customer
experience?” is so important.
- [29:14] Jennifer shares some of
her favorite concepts. Peak-end is her favorite, but the most
overlooked is visual salience.
- [31:27] Melina shares her
experience when she toured the Human Behavior Lab at Texas
- [33:46] Jennifer encourages
brands to have someone who is responsible for making sure
effectiveness and emotion are being delivered on in the journey
- [36:20] When you know what you
are looking for then you can see if you are on track and put in
those nudges. If you don’t know the end game, it is not as
effective as it could be. The quality of the work is in the quality
of the brief.
- [38:06] Making choices easy is
so much of what they do. Getting brands to understand where to get
people ready to buy is the first step.
- [39:15] The first thing they do
is think: “Where are the points we need to be nudging to action?”
and “Where are the points we need to be inspiring people?” They are
usually not the same place.
- [39:23] The book
is a good first start for people to
think about a framework to apply this at the journey
- [40:11] Melina’s closing
- [41:46] Grab Melina’s brand new
book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell
You), which is now on
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